Hermione's Bookshelf

Team JKR: powergays: it’s canon that sirius and james were smarter than remus...

powergays:

hermionesbookshelf:

lupinatic:

powergays:

it’s canon that sirius and james were smarter than remus and so all your fics where they’re idiots who need remus to explain what a book is are so wildly out-of-character that it’s gone past annoying and is just funny

To be precise, it’s not canon that they were smarter, it’s…

I don’t think it ever says that James and Sirius were smarter than Remus, but they were definitely smart, among the smartest in their class. I kind of saw James and Sirius like Fred and George, who could get good grades despite not studying as much. And they are very good with inventing new things, like the Map, and at doing advanced magic.

I think the fact that Remus was shown studying while James and Sirius were goofing around contributes to the idea that he should be correcting them or telling them about books. (I tend to do this specifically when it comes to literature, because in my mind, while all three are very smart, I have this headcanon of Remus loving to read fiction, and he talks about it all the time, telling the Marauders about it. After all, someone can be really smart and good at magic but not particularly have a thing for fiction.)

I think all three of them were very bright, but where I do think it’s appropriate to show Remus correcting James and Sirius is when they’re being irresponsible, not so much in school work or magic or things like that.

it really really does say it. i’ve clearly laid out various textual supports and acknowledged that no, at no point does someone say, “james and sirius were smarter than remus” basically because that would be super weird, but every time marauderial intelligence comes up, it’s pretty clearly established.

“I think the fact that Remus was shown studying while James and Sirius were goofing around contributes to the idea that he should be correcting them or telling them about books.”

i know where it comes from i’m saying it’s stupid. james and sirius were goofing around while remus studied because james and sirius knew the material already and remus didn’t.

idk why you’re saying you have this headcanon of remus liking to read like basically the whole fandom doesn’t have that, like people who could describe their headcanons like that aren’t the people i’m referring to. (not that there’s anything wrong with that headcanon in and of itself, but what it frequently turns into)

i am not getting into this again. i’ve said what i have to say in my responses to lupinatic and i have no interest being engaged with like i have not. if you want to address an actual argument i’ve made, then go ahead, but if you just want to join the ranks of remus stans screeching “it’s not canon!!!” then doing so off my post would be ideal.

This’ll be my last response.

I don’t get what you’re saying about being engaged like you haven’t stated your view. You wrote your views with textual support and so did others. You’re interpreting the canon as James and Sirius being smarter than Remus in canon, whereas others are stating reasons why people may have had more reason to comment on James and Sirius’ intelligence, even if Remus was similar in intelligence. (Among them from my view: that people would have a reason to comment on Sirius’ intelligence, given their disappointment he ended up in Azkaban, and on James’ given that he was killed and didn’t get to use that later in life for a career or other pursuits.) Given that James was Head Boy, I actually think it’s *totally fair* to conclude he was the best student of them.

By the way, I’m agreeing with you like 95%. While I don’t think James and Sirius were necessarily smarter than Remus (mostly because we don’t see enough of them during their time at Hogwarts to tell), I think they were all really smart and I agree I don’t like fics where they are portrayed as unintelligent, which I take to be your main point.

And the comment about my headcanon was just because I write fics so I was mentioning how I write them, since we were talking about how the Marauders are portrayed in fics, not meant as an argument against you.

Anyway, like I said, that’ll be my last response. I’m sorry if I came across as, in words, “remus stans screeching ‘it’s not canon!!!’”. I love the Marauders, but I don’t think any of them are perfect. I’m a Harry Potter fan, you’re a Harry Potter fan, so I was talking to you in what I thought was just a friendly partial-disagreement about the books.

queen of cher lloyd's gang of lesbians: lupinatic: powergays: it’s canon that sirius and james were smarter...

lupinatic:

lupinatic:

powergays:

it’s canon that sirius and james were smarter than remus and so all your fics where they’re idiots who need remus to explain what a book is are so wildly out-of-character that it’s gone past annoying and is just funny

To be precise, it’s not canon that they were…

I never said that James and Sirius weren’t bright and impressive and confident for a good reason, they definitely were. But just because they were showier than Peter and Remus and remembered more vividly by their teachers doesn’t mean that Peter and Remus were necessarily less accomplished, as James and Sirius found out to their detriment when they (or at least Sirius) underestimated both Remus’ ability to resist going Dark and Peter’s ability to defy them. It’s not unreasonable to think that someone with a less outgoing personality and a secret to keep like Remus might be doing most of his Marauding by helping them behind the scenes and looking stuff up - and remember, Remus was working at Howarts while McGongall was having this conversation. McGonagall, Flitwick and Hagrid were probably all somewhat reluctant to remind Fudge that Remus was part of the whole group as well in case Fudge started to get suspicious.

Also, James wasn’t an Auror. JKR confirms that he left school and went straight into working for the Order full time. James being an Auror is a fanon invention (though I dare say that’s what he would have done if not for the war and that his marks would have been plenty good enough). I’ll grant the mirrors, though there’s also no indication that Remus or Peter didn’t chip in to help with that too, and James inherited the Cloak from his family and Sirius had a lot of little knickknacks in Grimmauld as well, so it’s equally possible they inherited or found something rare and awesome.

Re: Remus’ teenage finances, in DH, Harry sees a photo of the four Marauders in their school uniforms, and Remus was ‘even then a little shabby-looking’ (highly unlikely if his family was comfortably financed). Also, Remus confirms in POA that his parents searched desperately for a cure, which is highly unlikely to have been cheap.

Like I said, I agree that James and Sirius were immature but smart and charismatic as all hell, and that they’re not stupid so much as that they don’t always think things through, and I dislike how this gets Flanderised in fics into getting their heads stuck in windows and whatnot. But saying ‘it’s totes canon that they were smarter than Remus’ is not any more accurate, because canon says that they were natural leaders, just as Remus is shown as being more of a natural teacher who does a lot of behind-the-scenes work and Peter more of a follower who follows complex orders while assessing carefully what he can get out of it. I think they were all as smart as each other, but Remus was quieter and less confident about it.

^#Reblogging for the 2 comments by lupinatic.

Team JKR: powergays: it’s canon that sirius and james were smarter than remus...

lupinatic:

powergays:

it’s canon that sirius and james were smarter than remus and so all your fics where they’re idiots who need remus to explain what a book is are so wildly out-of-character that it’s gone past annoying and is just funny

To be precise, it’s not canon that they were smarter, it’s…

I don’t think it ever says that James and Sirius were smarter than Remus, but they were definitely smart, among the smartest in their class. I kind of saw James and Sirius like Fred and George, who could get good grades despite not studying as much. And they are very good with inventing new things, like the Map, and at doing advanced magic.

I think the fact that Remus was shown studying while James and Sirius were goofing around contributes to the idea that he should be correcting them or telling them about books. (I tend to do this specifically when it comes to literature, because in my mind, while all three are very smart, I have this headcanon of Remus loving to read fiction, and he talks about it all the time, telling the Marauders about it. After all, someone can be really smart and good at magic but not particularly have a thing for fiction.)

I think all three of them were very bright, but where I do think it’s appropriate to show Remus correcting James and Sirius is when they’re being irresponsible, not so much in school work or magic or things like that.